1999/09/28, The Docks, Toronto, Canada

To the Planet Edge 1999

July 18
 Braga

September 23
 Washington
September 24
 New York
September 25
 Philadelphia
September 27
 Boston
September 28
 Toronto
September 30
 Detroit
October 1
 Chicago
October 2
 Minneapolis
October 4
 Denver
October 6
 San Francisco
October 8
 Los Angeles
October 9
 Anaheim
October 11
 Las Vegas
October 13
 Atlanta
October 14
 Fort Lauderdale
October 15
 Orlando
October 21
 Mexico City

At Toronto Andrew made fun of Americans; in the past he wasn't shy to criticize the country, the "ultraviolent Disneyland". Inspired by the comments Americans try to make sense of it all; read on.
Setlist | Reviews | Links | American comments discussion
American comments discussion

Written by S. Kennedy (limegreen44@yahoo.com) for Dominion mailing list (an extract)

Olive Drab:
> what were his quips?

There were the usual sarcastic sounding things, a tirade during the intro of Romeo Down worthy of Bono about Americans parking their bombs and tanks on our doorstep, along with the question 'anyone here like Americans?' then leaning over and cupping his ear to the assorted grumblings that came afterward.


Written by Todd C. Gregoire (tcg3@buffalo.edu) for The Sisters of Mercy Tours site (an extract)

Romeo Down:

Eldritch: "Honk if you like the U.S.A."
Crowd: *cheers, screams, AND boos*
*song intro starts*
Eldritch: "Unanimous"
Eldritch: says something I can't understand
Eldritch: "We really do not want their tanks on our lawn"
Eldritch: "Or the tomahawk missile"
Eldritch: "Or the F-117"
Eldritch: says something I can't understand
Eldritch: "...when it's parked on your lawn."


Written by Stephen Cox (mish01@flash.net) for Dominion mailing list

I am far from a flag-waving, face-painting, "U-S-A" chanting goon. But despite my great love of the Sisters (see my review of the Boston show) and tremendous respect for Eldritch's intelligence, I am still disturbed and insulted by his compulsion to put down the US, as the below suggests he did in Toronto. If he has such disdain for US, why is it that he chooses to come here for 15 of 17 tour dates? He could sell far more tickets on mainland Europe or his beloved Germany, no? For an artist who has been silent for the better part of nine years, why does he choose to express himself before those he criticizes?

At the very least, he should show some respect for the thousands of Americans who, in the previous week, came out to show their loyalty and support for him and his music. And the thousands more who will come out over the next few weeks. And if he lacks that respect, I would rather he have the balls to say it to our faces rather than waiting to get over the border.

Of course, I will still gladly shell out $30 the next time he is in town... :-)


Written by Tony Beck (tristren@earthling.net) for Dominion mailing list

Stephen Cox:
> If he has such disdain for US, why is it that he chooses to come here for 15
> of 17 tour dates? He could sell far more tickets on mainland Europe or his
> beloved Germany, no?

Because there are people there who like the Sisters, and they should not be made to suffer for the policies of the govt. :)

> At the very least, he should show some respect for the thousands of
> Americans who, in the previous week, came out to show their loyalty and
> support for him and his music. And the thousands more who will come out
> over the next few weeks.

It seems to me he has been treating his audiences excellently... (relatively speaking)

> And if he lacks that respect, I would rather he have the balls to say it to
> our faces rather than waiting to get over the border.

His quote to the Toronto audience was "Honk If You Love The U.S.A." then when the audience responded with loud boos, he said "it's unanimous" then he reminded us of all the US military might which is, as he put it "sitting on [our] lawn".

Not particularly defamatory....


Written by John Silva (jsilva@interlog.com) for Dominion mailing list

Tony Beck:
> His quote to the Toronto audience was "Honk If You Love The U.S.A." then when
> the audience responded with loud boos, he said "it's unanimous" then he reminded
> us of all the US military might which is, as he put it "sitting on [our] lawn".

This is not true, the audience did not boo when he said "Honk if you love the USA", we did say anything.

He also did insult the Canadian crowd by saying "we were going to give out our set list, but most of you can barely read".

Let's face it, Sisters is my favorite band, but this definitely wasn't my best concert.


Written by George Carless (gcarless@pangeagroup.com) for Dominion mailing list

Slagging off the Americans is an entirely British thing to do, and Eldritch is very British. That doesn't stop him from associating with them, sleeping with them, or taking their money. Since I'm an Englishman living in Chicago with an American girlfriend and an American job, I can sympathize fully.


Written by Sarah James (minuit@erols.com) for Dominion mailing list

Okay, let me get this straight in my mind...

The complaint seems to be that Andrew takes US dollars, then is critical of Americans. I don't think there is a problem...

First, The Sisters of Mercy (Andrew Eldritch) write several albums which are implicitly and explicitly critical of US policies and action. I doubt that anyone on this list, US citizen or not, agrees with all of the screw-ups and idiocies perpetrated by the government. I also can't say that Americans as a whole have the best reputation around the world. Beyond that, the Constitution allows folks the right to speak their opinions. So he isn't a citizen. Are his opinions therefore invalid?

His comments are perfectly in line with previous attitudes that he has voiced. I see no inconsistency. And if "Vision Thing" or "Floodland" has opened people's eyes to some of the lunacy or crap that the US government has done, well, that's the kind of speech that the First Amendment was created to protect. And the US government is only as good as the Americans who participate.

I agree with the points of view voiced by the Sisters. I support them by spending money on their products and services. If he had stood on stage and retracted his previous points of view, I would be disappointed by the hypocrisy, and consider him to be selling out - placing money above ideals...

Andrew's comments form a case of free market and First Amendment in perfect harmony.

Okay, I'll put my civics education back on the shelf...

Sarah
Yes, I'm a US citizen.
However, I have many difficulties with our foreign policies.


Written by Adam (nachtgeist@mindspring.com) for Dominion mailing list

Sarah James:
> I agree with the points of view voiced by the Sisters. I support them
> by spending money on their products and services. If he had stood on stage
> and retracted his previous points of view, I would be disappointed by the
> hypocrisy, and consider him to be selling out - placing money above ideals...

... and isn't he just laughing all the way to the bank, as he can insult fans and they will still doggedly throw their money at him. It can only re-enforce the impression that Americans are stupid...


Written by Jeremy Coffey (coffeyjt@hotmail.com) for Dominion mailing list

My guess is he is "playing" to the crowd. In DC, betwixt (iirc) Dominion/Mother Russia and Summer, he said "that was for the republicans, this is for the democrats." While I couldn't say what percentage of the crowd was partisan-minded, I thought it fitting nonetheless. Prolly the same sort of thing in Toronto -- I'm sure it had more resonance than Canada-bashing would have had in most of the US tour sites.


Written by Stephen Cox (mish01@flash.net) for Dominion mailing list

Sarah James:
>I agree with the points of view voiced by the Sisters.

From the context of that remark I assume you mean political? Name five specific political points of view voiced by the Sisters. Not vague "lunacy or crap that the US government has done" (as you choose to express it), or other non-specific anti-American sentiments. Specific points of view on specific policies and actions of the United States and its government voiced by the Sisters, i.e. AE. I have read all the interviews and am more than familiar with all the lyrics. With few exceptions, AE is as vague as you are. To suggest otherwise is an exercise in over-interpretation.

> If he had stood on stage and retracted his previous points of view,
> I would be disappointed by the hypocrisy, and consider him to be selling
> out - placing money above ideals...

(1) Based on what you write, what should be disappointing to you is that he stood on the stage in America and said NOTHING about his "point of view"; and (2) Why would a person who for 20 years has been vocal in his disdain for America choose to tour here virtually exclusively for 10 years, EXCEPT for money? I have no problem with that; the man has made music that many have bought and enjoyed, and he is entitled to profit by it (yeah for capitalism!). But if he really is anti-American, then he is most certainly placing money above ideals. [And the response "he's taking our money and laughing at us" is particularly silly and doesn't lend much credibility to whatever views you ascribe to AE, but rather makes them more shallow. Will the Beastie Boys be performing in China anytime soon?]


Written by Eldritch60@aol.com for Dominion mailing list

minuit@erols.com:
> The complaint seems to be that Andrew takes US dollars, then is critical of
> Americans. I don't think there is a problem...

I have agree that some of our foreign policies are disagreeable. In the forum of live musical performance I am sure it is easier to criticize "Those Americans" than launch into a time-consuming, albeit accurate, discussion properly addressing hairsplitting among factional lines.


Written by Paul (madder@icon.co.za) for Dominion mailing list

Stephen Cox:
> (2) Why would a person who for 20 years has been vocal in his disdain
> for America choose to tour here virtually exclusively for 10 years

Errr.... but he hasn't, he doesn't like you lot.


Written by Patrik Lindell (qul006b@tninet.se) for Dominion mailing list

Stephen Cox:
> Why would a person who for 20 years has been vocal in his disdain
> for America choose to tour here virtually exclusively for 10 years, EXCEPT
> for money?

I don't know about that. He has certainly put down certain Americans, but not the whole country (now we wouldn't have Stooges or Suicide et al if it wasn't for American culture, would we). I think the America/Eldritch topic is more that America obviously is the most extreme capitalist regime, and those extremities sometimes tend to get rather absurd. And those absurdities Andrew loves to point out. I think however, it is as much fascination for this than it is disdain (in more or less the same way he has been talking about The Bomb). Whether good or bad is not the question, the sometimes absurd way of living in the western world is more what is at stakes if You ask me. The countries he has really put down (and no, that does not apply to America) are France and Wales. And he has not toured them!

I am sure the above sentence oversimplifies things, and should be developed a bit more, but I did not have neither time nor energy to write more right now.


Written by Robert Hedengren (rwednesday@bellsouth.net) for Dominion mailing list

Okay, so now we know not to discuss the 'goth argument', the 'bootleg argument', the 'drug reference argument'. Can we please add the 'Anti-American' argument. This is getting a bit tedious. Everyone has good points, but no conclusion is going to be reached no matter. Every audience has its good members as well as its band members. Every country has its good points and its bad points. There is two sides to everything, but we are not going to reach a unanimous decision on this list. We all like different things about AE and the Sisters, and some may even disagree with some of the finer points. But we are all here as FANS for the man and his Music, can't that be enough?

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